Economic Balance (in theory)

Economic Balance (in theory)

« posted: Feb 14, 2018, 02:49 PM »
=Queue Novel=

So in my time playing A3Wasteland I've run into a lot of folks who complain because the players that play the most, typically end up very heavily armed. They end up with top tier attack choppers/jets/tanks and can pretty much steam roll any new player on the server.

Before I started modifying my own server, I played around with the source files provided by groups likes Fractured Gaming and Dark Vault and there's one thing I noticed about pretty much all of the source files I looked through; lack of economic balance.

Everything was dirt cheap, and rewards were very high. This means anybody could join in fresh to the server, locate a gun store, buy some AT and go wipe out a heavy armor shipment and run away with a months worth a couple hundred thousand $ which in turn bought a $20,000 helo/tank which then provides (if they can actually fly) virtually an unlimited financial supply.

So how do you solve this? How do you level the playing field for everybody so that dedicated players that play regularly are still rewarded, but not to the extent that your server becomes a breeding ground for trolls everywhere?

Economic Balance (have I mentioned this concept yet?)

I spent a few hours running through the storeconfig.cfg and managing all of the costs of everything based on quality/benefit. So a short range CQC scope won't be nearly as expensive as a long range scope, nor a 5.56 nearly as expensive as a .338 and so on; same is applicable to vehicles in the sense of being armed/unarmed armored/unarmored which is equally applicable to aircraft/helos with much consideration given to the advantage that aircraft/helos give to a player on the battlefield, so aircraft/heavy armor is much more realistically expensive.

I'm still in the process of implementing this balance, so it's far from perfect. But now, players will no longer be able to afford top tier gear/weaponry/vehicles/armor/air by simply completing one heavy money shipment. Instead, they've now got incentive to continue doing missions; especially if they enjoy hunting other players.

This forces all players equally to seek out the missions. Additionally, "sugar daddy" (why, just why?) hasn't been altered any because the sugar daddy balance though not enough to buy you armors and such, it's a very significant amount in terms of purchasing gear/equipment that could be vital to the success of a players progression if they manage to take out a sugar daddy.

Economic Balance breeds caution, because now players have to earn their toys and if they want to keep them, they'll need to play strategically. You won't find anybody endlessly trolling weak players because well, honestly, they wont' be able to afford too. The longer you loiter, the more at risk you are of loosing that really expensive toy.

With each player's bank account limit set to a point where they can buy a single one of the most expensive item on the list, and still have enough to start fresh should they die, they'll find themselves having to start over.

This balance ran off a lot of people that just wanted to be spoon fed their toys, those seeking immediate gratification. But it also as a result ran off the trolls (coincidence?) and the player experience is SO much more intense. Just testing things out I nearly browned my shorts at the sound of an attack helo approaching because I couldn't afford any AA, and I was stuck with little cover beyond a little rock; talk about an adrenaline rush.

Add in a more hostile AI system at more than the default snails speed and you've got a real challenge. You've got a tiny window to lock on and take out air hostiles because they're not just chuggin along like they just burned down some dank chiba. They're moving with conviction. An HVT carrying $150k by an escorted helo isn't just going to mosey along begging you to shoot them, they're going to be alert, they're going to be aware, and if you don't play it right, they're going to wreck you.

I've spent the past two weeks studying how A3Wasteland was built and I'm mind blown at the fact I used to hate A3Wasteland (even previous versions) but it turns out that it wasn't A3Wastelands fault. It was the server owners that configured the files and just left 99% of the settings at default.

With the system I'm working on, it makes everything feel earned. It gives a player a sense of satisfaction when they can actually afford that upgrade that they wanted (usually they're favorites). And they're going to play in a way that they can hang onto those upgrades as long as possible (strategy).

This balance greatly promotes team play, as you can no longer build an army of one with an endless supply of lethal supports as long as you can make it to a vehicle vendor. No, now a single player can either save for that top tier jet/chopper and pray to jebus that he doesn't loose it seconds after purchasing it, or they can play in a more conservative manner and focus on less expensive equipment that would enable them to continue saving.

Since the bank limit per player only permits a single funding of the most expensive vehicle in the balance, (which is an EXTREMELY significant balance for players not interested in flying/blowing shit up with tanks). Players are forced to either team play, or start a stash house and store external funds. As you can imagine, this brings an all new level of tension to play when you consider that if somebody discovers your stash, you could be out whatever you saved.


Yes, this has become a novel; but I'm excited about this. Because I feel like A3Wasteland has been underappreciated for a very long time. Players like me (former realism/semi-realism) who didn't see the point in jumping into a game where everybody was equal and it just felt like a glorified Battlefield1-2-3-4....One. Players like me want a reason to come back to the server, a genuine reason that goes beyond "I'ma go pwn some noobs". I want to log in and feel I have something to accomplish in the time I've got to play.

Maybe I'm a pilot, so I want that REALLY expensive jet/helo.

Maybe I'm a commander, so I really want some armor.

Or maybe I'm that smart dude that just saves all his money for a virtually unlimited supply of gear/weapons.

Whatever the play style, each player will feel they're playing for a purpose, and I'm excited to share that.

I've got a lot of modifications & implementations to make, but I'll be sure to share it once it's functional.

I'll be calling it A3W: RENEGADE, because it will be unlike anything we've experienced before (at least me).

Maybe this has all been done before, and I just need to get out more xP. Whatever, I'm excited.

Thanks for A3Wasteland, it's hands down the best foundation out there.

Sincerely,
CSG-Preacher
"Fine! I don't need your stinkin' lab,I've got my own stinkin' lab!"
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Re: Economic Balance (in theory)

« Reply #1 posted: Feb 14, 2018, 08:09 PM »
Quote
I played around with the source files provided by groups likes Fractured Gaming
we didn't provide you with anything...

Anyways, TL;DR...

 Economy in wasteland is a hard battle. A lot of people say the WANT a tough economy, however it's not like that. Survival modes such as exile have really put a damper on the slow pace wasteland. If you're wanting a populated server, especially on wasteland, even more so on Stratis, you're going to have to give people stuff and fast. However, what you use on your server is what makes the server fun.

Here's the deal. People have been playing ARMA 3 since 2013, that 5 years. Aside from mods, and a few DLC, there's not a lot that people haven't seen. So why make them wait for the same .338 SPMG they've used on every other server for years.

Essentially, you can speculate as much as you want about an economy on A3W. But very few servers will survive making it a survival-esk server. Anyways, It's a never ending battle. I wish you the best of luck.
Posts once, edits post 40 times in 60 seconds. STUPID FAT FINGERS!

Re: Economic Balance (in theory)

« Reply #2 posted: Feb 14, 2018, 08:49 PM »
we didn't provide you with anything...

https://github.com/Fractured-Gaming-Official/Frac_v1.4New.Stratis provided via your official github?

Economy in wasteland is a hard battle. A lot of people say the WANT a tough economy, however it's not like that. Survival modes such as exile have really put a damper on the slow pace wasteland. If you're wanting a populated server, especially on wasteland, even more so on Stratis, you're going to have to give people stuff and fast. However, what you use on your server is what makes the server fun.

I agree. People are whiney little things that I won't properly describe on a forum. It seems the gaming community has REALLY gone down hill in terms of playing games for purely entertainment, from having used to have played for entertainment AND for challenge. To me, games get so boring if there's no progression/rewards system. Games that instantly hand the keys to the kingdom get lame within minutes for me. Add in the trolls that take advantage of it and it's game over.

Here's the deal. People have been playing ARMA 3 since 2013, that 5 years. Aside from mods, and a few DLC, there's not a lot that people haven't seen. So why make them wait for the same .338 SPMG they've used on every other server for years.

I'm fully aware, I bought ARMA3 on the day of it's Alpha release. I see what you're saying. But the content is not the source of pleasure and excitement, it's the experience. They KNOW that .338 is going to 1 shot most enemies, they WANT that .338 but it's just out of reach right now. If they stay alive long enough, they might get their hands on it and find themselves the next rogue assassin dominating the map through strategy and element of surprise. Gamers are so focused on the physical (bare with me) content, that they forget about how that content can be manipulated to benefit their experience. That's the problem with modern game devs today, it's all about content and no substance. Just my 2 cents.

Essentially, you can speculate as much as you want about an economy on A3W. But very few servers will survive making it a survival-esk server. Anyways, It's a never ending battle. I wish you the best of luck.

I don't doubt you. Lazy gamers is the "thing" now. But, I've already got a dead server (fresh), so I don't exactly have anything to loose lol.

Additionally. There are FAR more elements behind the economic mechanics within A3Wasteland that need to be balanced out to ensure that the player still feels that though the things they desire are much more expensive than they're used to, that they can still achieve it by simply playing the game. By playing the game you get better, and as you get better you live longer, and the longer you live the more the reward. Oldschool gamer #logic there man.

The fact that A3Wasteland has resale value is a huge part of this. Because those who choose too, and are lucky enough to find them (on servers with proper random veh spawn balance, not just scattered everywhere), can return to vendors and sell the contents/vehicles themselves to help boost their financial status.

This post by NO means elaborates on the complexity and depth I'm diving into with this Economic concept. Hence why I'm tagging it A3W:RENEGADE. It's foundation is that of A3W and will feel familiar, but the way it's played will be vastly different than anything else out there in terms of A3W. Add in my own collection of personally developed missions & content and it'll be unique in and of itself.

I think the biggest issue people have when playing something with a familiar foundation is that if it's not like what they've experienced previously, they're too closed minded to experience the new. My friends for example thought it was "too hard" because they heard me say things were "more expensive". But the game is just as easy as it was previously, you just can't dominate and troll people with top tier armor & air without being REALLY good. I'm balancing it enough that people actually have a reason to continue doing missions instead of "one n done, financially secure for life" setups. If they want those OP tanks/helos they're going to have to do some missions, several of them, in order to afford it. Players not concerned with dominating other players with air/armor superiority will be 100% fine. I played for 2 hours last night and enjoyed every second, there was more tension and suspense involved, more than any i'd experienced on A3W before, and it was all because "if I die, it's going to be a b(^ch getting back, and I'll loose everything I've worked for".

A3W:RENEGADE takes A3W from a "Militarized" game mode to a "Guerrilla" game mode. Militarized is available, but it takes team work, strategy, and organization. If you can succeed in forming a Military force in RENEGADE, you're a damn good player and should take pride in that. Because you've used intelligence, caution, and skill to get there. Not just ran up to a vendor and bought your favorite gun and hello kitty cars.

Additionally, I'm not seeking to profit. I'm not out anything more than time if my server fails. You big dogs may make substantial income via donations from your server fans (at the very least enough to pay for hosting), but I'm just a little dude that's truly fascinated by the way ya'll set this stuff up. I admire you honestly.

In the end, if I hated A3W prior to economic balance, and turns out I love it; there are bound to be more like me. And i'll provide my modifications once I feel my contribution is complete, and people can do with it what they will. Be it they completely disregard it, or use it on their LAN server to play with their little brother. I'm happy and content either way. =]

In the end, people love easy mode because it was given to them. According to the store.cfg it hasn't been modified since 2013-09-16 lol. Easy mode is all anyone's ever had. And there haven't really been any other option (in my experience). Something like A3W:RENEGADE is going to need time and exposure in order to find it's following, as does anything. A3W didn't succeed over night, of that I am sure ^_^. Patience and determination are key.

I think A3W would be top dog had legitimate economic balance been implemented from the git. That's not dogging on what A3W is today, because it's obviously successful. But for those of us who bought ARMA3 to get away from Battlefield and COD style game play, A3W is way under living it's potential. Since ya'll are an open community (in terms of source provision), it allows people like me to try and contribute in a positive way.

There's an entire A3 fanbase out there that would enjoy economy. Maybe not #1 server status, but who give's a chit. If you're providing a memorable and pleasurable experience for other people with your work, shouldn't that be sufficient regardless of how "many". Unless of course the motive is $ and popularity, in which case; hand over titans and helos as soon as they log in ^_^.
"Fine! I don't need your stinkin' lab,I've got my own stinkin' lab!"

Re: Economic Balance (in theory)

« Reply #3 posted: Mar 06, 2018, 02:16 AM »
I hear both your guys points here. While I believe players would rather have it all now than have to grind for it I believe in some type of balance. Some of these servers you join and it's just full of everyone sitting on a hill with Static or Compact AT's hitting vehicles from over 2km away all day. I like what I saw done on another server where they made some of the OP items mission only items. I have followed that same idea and have put several of the OP items as mission only items. While most may enjoy the PVP aspect more some do enjoy doing the missions and making items rare draws players into the immersion more I think. Thus I edited some of the missions to make them a little more challenging.